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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Ten internet points says if it wasn't active before, Pen's going down flipped the switch. XD
Or it could just be the cavalry.
Also, just about anywhere that hatch could be has the flare pin-balling like a wizard to get that arc into the room.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:35 pm 
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mike5 wrote:
First I must say I really like the comic! Really! A lot!

But page 150? A random shot and right through the door? Come on, I'm sure it could have been executed better - the second frame could show her at least aiming at the ship.

I'm only saying this because considering the quality of the story so far, this is has caught me by surprise.


Given how consistently horrible Dang's luck has been throughout, I think a one-in-a-million it-could-never-happen lucky shot is certainly allowable. Sadly, it probably means that something even more unfortunate is about to happen, given that she's lost Pen, is stranded, and wounded...

e: typo


Last edited by Quinton on Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:21 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:47 am 
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I could personally totally see miasmics being sloppy enough to leave ordnance laying around to be hit by a flare gun.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:05 am 
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I theorize that the next page will show that it was not Dangs flare but something completely different that caused the explosion alltogether. Some other not-friendly-to-miasmics ship with a cannon of its own maybe? :) Or a competing tribe of some sort.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Glennnnn wrote:
You make these assumptions about life among the miasmics.
Well, maybe some of them are peaceful, like the ones who were part of the crew on the Goya, but what has gradually been shown, through little hints and direct examples is that they for the most part are violently contentious and territorial.
When we first encounter them they have occupied a barn-type place that they have simply modified for their use, while they carry weapons and wear skulls.
It's clear that there's history between them and humans: (Kill on sight.)
Their cruelty and vicious method leaves quite a bit to be desired for being able to get along with them- (I think they act like they're on drugs.)

I think you're tying way too hard to equate peaceful with good and violent with bad. "Violently contentious and territorial" could describe pretty much all animals; even herbivores fight for mating rights and food. Humans have a long and proud history of building weapons that make them better at being "violently contentious and territorial".

Moreover, even the "peaceful" people on board the Goya were heavily armed, while Dang seems to have a fragmentary understanding of the Miasmic language(s) and Beautiful Flower actually showed more compassion towards Dang than her human friend. Everything we've seen so far seems to indicate humans and miasmics have normal relations with each other, which in a context of competition for rare resources mean they fight often.

The worst we've seen is the Miasmic fleet which was at Primrose and is possibly (probably?) the same fleet that opened fire on Dang and sunk the Penumbra. Their behaviour is somewhat consistent with some kind of religious movement; but for all we know, they could simply be at war with some of the human groups (and we don't even know why—they might not be the aggressors). Their exposure of humans to the Mist may have religious or cultural significance, but since the Mist seems to confer true prophetic powers on the human victims it could also be a practical way to gather intelligence. For all we know, there are human groups out there who do the same.

With regards to their origins, there was the word "evolve" scrawled on the barn where we first saw them, which to my mind is a hint they probably evolved out of humans. In fact, that exposure to the Mist kills humans is our interpretation—the story so far hasn't actually ruled out that what we saw on Primrose was the Miasmics "recruiting". The only human we've seen that was "killed" by the Mist, IIRC, actually committed suicide and it's Dang's guess that he did so due to the Mist.

In short, I really don't think good vs. evil is a theme here at all...

With regards to the last page, was Dang even attacking with her flare gun? I know she's used it like a weapon before, but its original purpose is calling for help, and she really has nothing to gain by attacking the Miasmic fleet. Woman with flare gun versus warships with naval artillery doesn't seem like a good idea. Given her pained expression, she may have accidentally fired it, or maybe she's gritting her teeth because her only hope of survival is throwing herself on her enemy's mercy?


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Hey KittyCat. Welcome to the forums. That's some wonderful speculation and I can at least confirm that Derelict has little Black and White when it comes to morality. I'm not apposed to stories of good vs. evil but that's not the sort of story Derelict is.

As for why she fired the flare, that was a bit unclear, I know. Basically she's just pretty sure she's dead and she may as well spitefully try and light something on fire (worked before!). Why the ship EXPLODED as apposed to just one Gargoyle getting a little bit burned will be much more clear next page.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:26 pm 
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KittyCat wrote:
Glennnnn wrote:
Moreover, even the "peaceful" people on board the Goya were heavily armed


The modern confabulation of strength with violent aggression - the idea that having the means for violence is the same as an intent or purpose of inflicting violence on others - is a recent one and has little root in reality.

There are two forms of interaction between organisms: reason, for the ones who possess it, and force, for everything else. Sometimes, on good days, reason works. Every other interaction is a contest of force.

Organisms that are unable - or, even more irrationally, unwilling - to defend their needs and safety with violent force are featured in lots of history books. We call them victims.

Dang's world is pretty clearly one where sentient beings have discarded the current sociopolitical invention of "strength = criminal" after learning the hard way that even peaceful individuals are sometimes attacked by violent force and have to fight to simply survive.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:35 pm 
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He Who Has No Name-
I think I like that explanation better, but I've just been following the story trying to figure out anything possible (and sometimes pushing a few buttons in the process.)
The way it has been presented, as a world where the rules have changed can't be argued, but we're still trying to figure out exactly what those rules might be!
Those who are just starting on Derelict have an advantage over those who have been around longer, since more has been explained, allowing a less compromised view, still without being specific enough to mark any faction as good or bad, black or white. A curious thing about those guys in the gray navy ships: why do they appear to have been doing nothing, besides watching from the safety of their fleet? (Arbutus)
Blame me for being human and rooting for the home team!
Go Dang!

PS: I have an orange flare-gun just like that, and if you want to hit anything at all let's just say that windage is a big factor, although it would be very easy to start a fire anywhere the shot landed. Maybe Dang's shot bounced into a powder magazine servicing one of those deck guns. That would certainly be a disaster, (even though you could also be thinking "poetic justice!")


Last edited by Glennnnn on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:09 am 
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Glennnnn wrote:


PS: I have an orange flare-gun just like that, and if you want to hit anything at all let's just say that windage is a big factor, although it would be very easy to start a fire anywhere the shot landed. Maybe Dang's shot bounced into a powder magazine servicing one of those deck guns. That would certainly be a disaster, (even though you could also be thinking "poetic justice!")


Powder magazines of the kind you're thinking were phased out of ship designs not long after WWII. Deck guns use unitary loads nowadays.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:18 am 
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Hah! There you go putting your knowledge of how things are today with how they "actually are" in this story. It's possible to separate the projectile from the casing holding the charge. It could be something like that for greater economy, since this shooting cannons business is an expensive one!
I was in the artillery for a few years and larger than 105mm rounds had powder bags so the charge could be varied. On the towed 155mm howitzer you had a very small bag of powder for charge one, and larger bags that could be added behind the projectile for up to charge seven which was good for about 19,000 meters.
The unused powder was routinely burned the next day, since most of the action was at night- when the people wearing black would come out to play with their mortars and satchel charges.
Burning the surplus powder bags was always a glorious sight in the morning- the 5 to 10 meter pillar of flames roaring like a rocket engine out of a deep hole in the ground! 8o!
Obviously, there's something inside that compartment that is immediately flammable. Bean has already promised to explain on the next update, so we'll know soon enough!


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:15 pm 
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Glennnnn wrote:
Hah! There you go putting your knowledge of how things are today with how they "actually are" in this story. [...]
Obviously, there's something inside that compartment that is immediately flammable.


It is not "obvious" that there is something in that compartment that is immediately flammable.

Given the disconnect between firing a flare gun and a battleship exploding, I think it's possible that the projectile bouncing through the hatch isn't Dang's flare at all. It could be an explosive shell or grenade launched by an as-yet unknown third party.

Simply put, I ain't buying your omniscience....


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Beanjamish wrote:
Hey KittyCat. Welcome to the forums. That's some wonderful speculation and I can at least confirm that Derelict has little Black and White when it comes to morality. I'm not apposed to stories of good vs. evil but that's not the sort of story Derelict is.

As for why she fired the flare, that was a bit unclear, I know. Basically she's just pretty sure she's dead and she may as well spitefully try and light something on fire (worked before!). Why the ship EXPLODED as apposed to just one Gargoyle getting a little bit burned will be much more clear next page.

Thanks!

Her expression in the last panel seems to be "what the hell?" which is consistent with just about any explanation.

Rocktometrist wrote:
Given the disconnect between firing a flare gun and a battleship exploding, I think it's possible that the projectile bouncing through the hatch isn't Dang's flare at all. It could be an explosive shell or grenade launched by an as-yet unknown third party.

Honestly, that not only looks like a flare, but if a projectile this size produces such a large primary explosion...I want some :p

I think it's clearly either a secondary explosion produced by Dang's flare hitting something like a powder magazine or fuel (with the right proportions of fuel and air); or a third party opened fire on the Miasmic ship.

The Arbutus fleet was at Primrose and this is probably the same Miasmic warships that attacked Primrose. Given what little dialogues we had from the Arbutus characters at the time indicated they were investigating what happened to Primrose, it's not at all impossible that they've tracked down and engaged the Miasmics. Add in Bean's little video that shows Arbutus are no friends to the Miasmics in general*, it makes alot of sense.

If I had to guess, Primrose were trading partners of Arbutus or/and some kind of tributary. When they stopped answering/paying tribute/when refugees started showing up, Arbutus sent ships to investigate and possibly ordered them to exact revenge against the attackers.

This is, however, pure speculation.

*Nevertheless, Beautiful Flower was going there. If I had to guess again, I'd expect Arbutus segregates the Miasmics, rather than just killing them on sight. Or maybe I'm confusing their symbol, but I'm pretty sure it has the word Arbutus under it in the comic.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:03 pm 
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KittyCat-
Some insightful speculation (that still can't be proven!)
Except for the secondary. Obviously that. Highly unlikely that explosion could be anything but the flare finding something nice to ignite.
Those are the same ships that were at Primrose, and I think they were hunting Dang and Penumbra.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:44 am 
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He Who Has No Name wrote:
Powder magazines of the kind you're thinking were phased out of ship designs not long after WWII. Deck guns use unitary loads nowadays.

On HUMAN ships, perhaps. But it's really unclear what the miasmics' technology level is. I'm reminded of the slingshot bayonets some of them had at Primrose. Also, it's hard to tell from the glimpses we have if those ships were originally built by humans or miasmics. The basic "ship" shape is determined as much by function as by anything else. And the close-up of the ship on page 150 just doesn't have the "look" of human ship plating. That horrific ramming prow isn't at issue because that could have been added after the fact. So - they can be human ships that have been refitted (the interior shot of the steps and butcher's block (complete with butcher's chopper - ugh) looks very human-design) or they could be original construction.

That said, I'm starting to like the idea of an off-screen ship from the Arbutus fleet lobbing a shell at them coincidental to Dang's flare. The look of complete crogglement on her face is fantastic! "It worked before..." Oh, yeah!

I wish we had a clue about time. How long has it been since the oceans rose? Ten years, fifty, a hundred? More? There are clues, but they don't offer enough to pin it down. It's been long enough for a full-grown tree to grow behind a crashed airplane wing. But not long enough to completely demolish high-tension power lines. I'm just wondering how thoroughly established the new "normal" is, culturally speaking. Is Dang just one of hundreds of scavengers or is she quite unusual? (Well, of COURSE she's unusual - but that's not what I mean) When she took the Penumbra back from Beauf and Klein, he said something about "Dead the moment I had to go fight a mothballer on her own ship." This implies that there's been a reputation earned - which requires a certain amount of history. Though he might also have been a mothballer - he has the same kind of dye in his hair.

To date, humans have never found their match in sheer deadliness. How much of a run for our money are the miasmics going to give us? I've seen speculation that they might be "evolved" humans but realistically speaking that doesn't seem possible. Not without outside intervention, anyway. The mere existence of This One suggests strongly to me that they came from elsewhere, as it spoke as if it had existed forever. We have rumors of Nessie, Bigfoot and the Yeti - I can't believe This One could have been on the Earth for even hundreds of years and not generated rumors of itself.

So - my vote is for "alien invasion" that happened to take place just as Global Warming (ok, ok - "Climate Change") melted the Ice Caps and drowned our coasts. For obvious reasons (think "shipping") a HUGE amount of our manufacturing is done near waterways - how much of that went under the sea just when we needed it most?


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:37 am 
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Tru wrote:
We have rumors of Nessie, Bigfoot and the Yeti - I can't believe This One could have been on the Earth for even hundreds of years and not generated rumors of itself.


Considering the fact that we know less about what's on the ocean floor than we do outer space, I think he could get away with it to an extent. --> Check out these Cryptids


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:26 am 
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"Mothballer" implies a group living on those ships still functional yet outmoded by more modern technology. There are a large number of these in storage, shrink-wrapped and protected for possible re-use until that decision looms to either scrap or save.
I can imagine the collection of old ships strung together into a large floating compound and those crusty individuals aboard, but so far that's all we have: just the name and just what we can imagine. Maybe Dang is more typical of the Mothballers- a salvage specialist, which in this world is a sort of multipurpose occupation.
Judging by their level of technology, I would put constructing a ship from the keel up to be far beyond what the Miasmics are capable of, but they do seem to be capable of re-purposing to their own specifications. Their add-ons to those ships, the ramming prows and boarding gantries speak of their mentalities. It might be more to their liking to have lever-tensioned and counter-weighted siege-engines rather than the more modern ship's guns, but they use what's available and just make it work for them.
Too many wild cards, like This One and the Thing on the Goya, and those intelligent fish-monsters to be able to make more sense of it. How do they fit into it? They seem like their own story from some alternate reality...
The Miasmics by themselves are a puzzle that suggest many possible origins. What we have here is like an information overload, only in questions that need to be answered.
-A high level of Boggleossity?
I can actually see an Arbutus-originated shot as causing that damage on the Miasmic ship, but that would call for an even greater coincidence and alignment of the stars and planets than Dang's own improbably lucky shot. It could happen, but to the rational mind more remote than we know to be what should happen.
That really has nothing to do with this story though.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:32 am 
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Which kinda makes my point. There would be "sightings" and old photos and so forth. Plus This One has a social attitude. It didn't seem particularly shy to show itself to Dang, so if it'd been hanging around the earth for millions of years, I think we'd know about it. :) The automatic assumption is that such a creature would hide - but in truth, why would it? Especially to primitive man, who I'd think would have a hell of a time doing it any damage.

In any case, I'm fairly convinced that This One is not native to Earth. Of course, it's Bean's web-comic so if he says otherwise, oh, well... :) But until he does, I'm sticking with aliens. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:38 am 
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Ha ha!
Best to just let the story take care of itself, without trying to iron out every wrinkle, or you risk going mad! It's just amazing enough without being able to be completely understood!

-This One is the lone survivor of an alien ship that crashed in the Pacific Ocean more than a hundred thousand years ago, and still suffering from memory loss due to the trauma. But what remains of the alien ship has the equivalent of video games and telepresence to keep it busy and occupied unless something really interesting happens in that world of tiny humans who live such quick life-cycles. For all we know when it sleeps a thousand of our years might pass, while it's concept of time is completely different from our mortal perspective.


Last edited by Glennnnn on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Page Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:41 am 
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Maybe this one has had a more prime directive kind of attitude towards humans in the past. As someone who's said he's admired their endeavors, it makes sense to me that he would prefer to play the role of a passive observer while humanity was at it's peak.

Still, I can see this one being an alien, too. I think the strongest evidence for that is if he really does pre-date the formation of the earth itself as he implied.


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